Kerry Tozer and Jordan Roods were new doctoral researchers at the University of Technology Sydney (UTS) when Kerry saw an ad for a competition posted by the university’s podcast studio. The prize was featuring the winner’s research. Wouldn’t it be cool if their work were turned into a podcast? They entered.
“We were very surprised when we actually won,” says Kerry, “because it was a university-wide competition for both students and staff.” Although they were in the early days of their research, they worked with producers at UTS Impact Studios to create All That We Touch: Liquid Gold, a sound-rich podcast that takes listeners on a journey from Australia to other continents, unpacking the looming nitrogen and phosphorus crises. It showcases how nutrients in human urine can be recycled to revolutionize the way we grow our food and care for our ecosystems.

Nice work!
Kerry and Jordan are social scientists at the Institute for Sustainable Futures (ISF), UTS. Their doctoral research is part of a broader public-private collaborative called the Nutrients in a Circular Economy Research Hub (NiCE Hub). Funded by the Australian Research Council, NiCE Hub connects researchers across seven Australian universities with water utilities, government, industries and international organizations, like the Vermont-based Rich Earth Institute. Scientists at NiCE Hub study ways to collect and recycle nutrients from urine to develop safe and effective renewable fertilizers.
In the podcast, listeners learn that UTS is the first university in Australia to have a building with a urine diversion system. After the urine from its toilets is transported and stored, it is treated, resulting in a commercial-grade liquid fertilizer that can be applied to garden plants and farm crops.

“It’s such an interesting and fun topic,” says Jordan, “and I think everyone who listens to the podcast positions themselves in that system — giving something from your body to grow the food to feed the population.”
A diverse duo
Jordan grew up by the coast in Sydney. He studied social and political sciences and law at UTS before pivoting to work on ways to “close the loop between the bathroom and food system,” as he describes it. He’s interested in how the circular economy could be more effectively governed through new rules, like laws, zoning and plumbing codes (“basically all that boring stuff,” he jokes), as well as partnerships and community education. Jordan aims to improve outcomes for people and our planet by shifting our value systems, but doing so requires a high level of coordination among those who haven’t had exclusive responsibility for nutrient recycling.
For now, he and others within the NiCE Hub see the most potential to grow food in hydroponic settings, where regulations for using urine-based fertilizers are less stringent than for land-based agriculture.
Before joining ISF/UTS, Kerry focused on a different type of sustainability in her former career: managing corporate supply chains. Now she’s working on ways to scale up the circular supply chain — both the people and the economic systems — all while encouraging the recovery of nutrients. She wants to focus on the customer and create an economy around urine recycling, moving beyond simply donating pee, she says.
“We need something that’s going to be easy and convenient, and not require a lot of handling,” Kerry explains. The toilet should look like a normal ceramic bowl or urinal; that way, people are much more likely to use it.
For Jordan, it’s important to understand what people using the system think. To get feedback, he and Kerry added a survey to the podcast.
In their wildest dreams…
What would be their idea of a successful circular nutrient economy in the future?
Kerry imagines new housing being designed with separate plumbing to collect urine. The urine fertilizer could be used by struggling farmers or even on cricket playing fields. She would likestrong community awareness programs that create some hype and get people involved.
Jordan is keen to start larger projects, like the one in Cape Town, South Africa, where huge amounts of urine are collected from urinals in the DHL Stadium. “I would be interested in trying that in Australia,” he says, partly because it would save water, but also because it represents more equitable sanitation. “I think we’re at a point in history,” he adds, “where we can’t continue to do business as usual. We’re seeing that play out everywhere — these linear approaches to growing our food, dealing with our waste; it’s just not tenable anymore. Urine offers us a way to close that loop.”
And if we don’t? “We continue to waste resources, waste nutrients,” says Kerry. “We continue to be disassociated from our own bodily functions. We just get further and further away from what connects us to the world.”
Kerry was influenced during her youth by frequent visits to the Blue Mountains National Park near Sydney, and says, “I have this really deep love of nature, and I hate seeing the pollution and destruction. I think there are a lot more regenerative ways we can still have a civilized urban life that don’t impact on our beautiful natural environment.”
Want more?
- Listen to Kerry and Jordan speak as part of a panel on story-telling at the virtual Rich Earth Summit, November 4, 10:30-11:30 a.m. Eastern US time.
- Respond to their survey about whether their podcast influences public awareness, perceptions, and willingness to engage with peecycling.
- Check out the two bonus episodes of All That We Touch: Liquid Gold.
- Liquid Gold bonus: All That We Touch goes to SXSW. This 2025 live recording at South by Southwest (SXSW) Sydney is a panel discussion among experts who dive deeper into food security, responsibility for pollution, and other topics crucial to conversations around the circular nutrient economy. Basically, a policymaker, water utilities manager, researcher and garlic farmer sit down for a chat about peecycling.
- All That We Touch … at the pub. During this live recording from Gadigal land, Sydney, Jordan and Kerry share a drink with Professor Stuart White, Director of ISF, and discuss which is stranger: Recycling the nutrients from our pee or the fact that humans are the only species on earth that doesn’t recycle its nutrients.
- And finally, you can vote All That We Touch: Liquid Gold for the global Signal Listener’s Choice Awards (Voting closes Thursday, October 15).





















